[personal profile] wingedbeast
A frequent conversation I've had with Christians in that subset of Christianity that comprise my target reader in this series...

Christian: You/they have to know that X*.
Me: I/they am/are already quite aware that there are people who believe X*. So, telling them won't change anything.
Christian: But, you/they have to know that X*.

"X", in this case, is a stand-in for any number of claims. This can refer to the claim that Hell awaits one who hasn't been saved from their sins via faith, to the claim that God hates homosexuality, to the claim that believing that the theory of evolution accurately describes the history of life on Earth, etc.

In one specific point, I actually told someone, in comments section, that just stating the claim as though we are, now, obligated to believe on nothing more than the stated claim is not going to achieve results. The response was "You are obligated to believe."

A while back, I advised you to get comfortable with being wrong about important matters. In part, this tip takes that a bit further. I've come to the point, usually with Creationists, of outright asking them to admit to being, personally, fallible. The question "are you fallible" is, most often, either evaded by answering that God is not fallible or ignored entirely.

One part of this tip is that you need, as a subculture, to start grappling with the fact that you can believe something, you can feel as confident as can be about that something, and you can still be wrong.

The other part of this tip is that we, the people you feel it your duty to convince of your beliefs, know that you are fallible. That means that making your claim isn't enough. Repetition doesn't solve this. You claim X and what we know, now, is that you believe X. We may also know that you have fundamental misunderstandings of Y, but we know you believe X.

So, in order to convince somebody of something they don't already believe, you need to interact with the idea that you could be wrong about what you believe. Once again, I want to be clear in saying that you don't need to drop your faith, but you do need to interact with the idea that your faith could be wrong even though you believe it and even though you feel like you're certain. Failing to do so only leaves you incapable of dealing with people who already know that about you.

Date: 2017-04-29 02:16 am (UTC)
dragoness_e: Fanart of G1 Starscream with F-22 kibble in robot mode (Starscream F-22)
From: [personal profile] dragoness_e
I am far from being atheist or even agnostic, as you know, but damn, I have to facepalm at some of the arguments out there. Trying to convince a neo-pagan (who does not believe in Hell) that they need to convert or they'll go to Hell is just...

....well, it's up there with the ISP customer support who want me to use their website to troubleshoot my complete lack of Internet connection.

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