Black Hat Brigade: Episode 21
Dec. 15th, 2015 10:23 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
wingedbeastSetting: A beach. Far off to either side, cliffs in the distance. A bright day and blue, calm sea as far as the eye can see in one direction, and inviting green forest in the other.
Robin Hood: This is what people, in the modern day reality, call a "power play", is it not? To make us wait as an expression of the power imbalance.
Odysseus: This is what it's like, dealing with gods. They always like to remind you of your place.
Robin Hood: Well, this one is, by authorial intent at least, supposed to be another face of Jesus.
Odysseus: Ah, yes, that one that was made like Dionysus.
Robin Hood: Eh... no. Jesus is the human form of God, who is a god of love and kindness.
Odysseus: Yes, like Dionysus.
Robin Hood: No, this one is not a god of wine.
Odysseus: Even though he encourages people to drink wine and turned his very blood to wine.
Robin Hood: More that he turned the wine into his blood.
Odysseus: That's just called drinking.
Robin Hood: Anyway, Jesus is far more focused on doing good for widows, orphans, the poor.
Odysseus: Yes, like Dionysus.
Robin Hood: That is not my understanding.
Odysseus: Yes, people focus on the wine and think he's all about getting drunk... which he's not above. But, he is the god that is known, most, for stretching out his hand in compassion for and solidarity with the least among us, and blesses those who do.
Robin Hood blinks: I would not have thought that.
Odysseus: That's alright. Most Christian cultures, particularly during the Middle Ages and Renaissance, commonly downplayed the more common virtues of what they called "pagan", trying to make it out that they nobody else shared their values of love and kindness and charity.
Aslan: All who do such good obey Christian values, regardless of the imagined demons they claim to name as gods.
Odysseus and Robin Hood look to note the source of the new, soft glow, Aslan standing apon the calm ocean water.
Odysseus: That is debatable at best.
Aslan: Then, we may have that debate at a later time, if you desire. For now, we and goodness itself have common foe in this Black Hat Brigade.
Robin Hood: I have met with the Black Hat Brigade and I see no such enemy in them.
Aslan: I am surprised. You are poised as unambiguous good. What fellowship can light have with darkness?
Robin Hood: What fellowship can your goodness have with mine?
Aslan: Speak your mind.
Robin Hood: I am a thief, the Prince of Thieves actually. My story is of people doing the best they can in a world where the law and the king and the society itself does not allow them option. Your ideal world is well described in terms of that fantasy game, Dungeons and Dragons.
Aslan: I have use of fantasy, but not that game.
Robin Hood: You should give it a try. At least you should do some reading on the subject. The phrase that comes up that applies to the Narnian ideal is "Lawful Stupid". In your world, there is the king, there is obedience to the king, who obeys the religious power of, well, yourself. But, should any element of that be unjust in any way-
Aslan: The only injustices in my canon come from the evil foes.
Robin Hood: Or from a king that claims lands for Narnia without thought or from a people who commit nigh-genocide on the natives of Narnia then, once that's done, instantly claim the name of Narnia for themselves-
Aslan: Those are not evils but kings living up to Arthurian idea.
Robin Hood: That ideal is a problem in itself. Sure, it's all well and good to say that a good king will bring vitality to the land. But, that good king must live up to high lifestyle not just for personal greed but to keep up appearances for others. It becomes a nasty cycle of lifestyle one-upsmanship that results in taxation going down a line to those who can least defend themselves.
Aslan gives Robin Hood a momentary look, then turns to Odysseus: It seems that the thief fears living under a good law. But, you understand the value of a law.
Odysseus: Indeed I do. My story is that of a man who travels far and long in order to get home to the wife, family, and home that is his to protect by law.
Aslan: And, you do not want this Black Hat Brigade rewriting your tale so that the good paterfamilias is denied his good and righteous due.
Susan Pevensie: Of course, your good and righteous due is not simply your position in your family, but a narrative of moral complexity.
Odysseus, Robin Hood, and Aslan all look to the source of a shadow.
Polyphemus gives a polite wave: Hello.
Odysseus: What are you doing here?
Susan: I brought him here to remind you of an essential element of your narrative, your reflection.
Polyphemus: I'm the first adventure in your epic tale, a story in which you invade the home where I am the rightful master and I treat you, in all honesty, better than a group of invaders are due in ancient Greek culture.
Odysseus: No, you're a monster.
Polyphemus: I'm a home-owner.
Odysseus: You ate at least one of my men, you're a cannibal.
Polyphemus: You ate at least one of your men when they were transformed into pigs. And, you killed a bunch of men when they were, by the laws and customs of your culture, lawful guests in your home.
Odysseus: I am the hero. I was protecting what is mine.
Polyphemus: You mean like my herds of sheep that you killed so you could eat and then wear their skins? I was protecting what was mine.
Odysseus: Come on! I am the hero of my story.
Polyphemus: In an Ancient Greek epic where the point of a hero is to have a fatal moral flaw, usually related to hubris or pride.
Susan: This actually does go back to authorial intent, where Ancient Greek heroes are intended to be examples both of good and bad, so that one can enjoy the narrative, take value from the virtues, and take warning from the sins. The Black Hat Brigade doesn't want to deny you anything, but Aslan's little group seeks to deny you the moral complexity of your story.
Susan: By the way, does your group have some suitably alliterative or rhyming name, yet?
Aslan: I see no need.
Susan: I find it quite helpful. If nothing else, it gives me something to put on the t-shirts.
Aslan: Of course you would wear t-shirts.
Susan: You mean, of course I would wear tight, form-fitting t-shirts, because, in your mind, sex is a horrible, evil thing that a woman must only share with the man she loves... or is told to love by her father considering your devotion to Arthurian ideal and your appeal to a classic Greek paterfamilias.
Odysseus: What's wrong with the paterfamilias?
Susan: Your story illustrates that quite nicely. What, with the fate of your wife, children, and household servants all dependent upon you to refrain from killing a bunch of men just because you can.
Odysseus: Everything worked out.
Susan: Most families can't count upon a literal deus ex machina to appear to fix problems. Sometimes, people need the freedom to be themselves first and wife, offspring, or servant second.
Robin Hood: It is an unjust law that requires all those in power be perfectly just before justice is possible and allows those with less power no option to address the more realistic possibility.
Aslan: I am grieved, Robin Hood, that you do not see the corruption of pure morality in this.
Susan: And, I am grieved that you see complexity as corruption.
Odysseus: If complexity makes me a monster to my own family for the mere assertion of my rights as paterfamilias, it is corruption and I will fight it.
Susan looks to Aslan: It seems that we're seeing the nature of the company you keep.
Aslan glances to Polyphemus: And the nature of the company you keep.
Susan: One wonders if you will ever discover the true difference.
Robin Hood: This is what people, in the modern day reality, call a "power play", is it not? To make us wait as an expression of the power imbalance.
Odysseus: This is what it's like, dealing with gods. They always like to remind you of your place.
Robin Hood: Well, this one is, by authorial intent at least, supposed to be another face of Jesus.
Odysseus: Ah, yes, that one that was made like Dionysus.
Robin Hood: Eh... no. Jesus is the human form of God, who is a god of love and kindness.
Odysseus: Yes, like Dionysus.
Robin Hood: No, this one is not a god of wine.
Odysseus: Even though he encourages people to drink wine and turned his very blood to wine.
Robin Hood: More that he turned the wine into his blood.
Odysseus: That's just called drinking.
Robin Hood: Anyway, Jesus is far more focused on doing good for widows, orphans, the poor.
Odysseus: Yes, like Dionysus.
Robin Hood: That is not my understanding.
Odysseus: Yes, people focus on the wine and think he's all about getting drunk... which he's not above. But, he is the god that is known, most, for stretching out his hand in compassion for and solidarity with the least among us, and blesses those who do.
Robin Hood blinks: I would not have thought that.
Odysseus: That's alright. Most Christian cultures, particularly during the Middle Ages and Renaissance, commonly downplayed the more common virtues of what they called "pagan", trying to make it out that they nobody else shared their values of love and kindness and charity.
Aslan: All who do such good obey Christian values, regardless of the imagined demons they claim to name as gods.
Odysseus and Robin Hood look to note the source of the new, soft glow, Aslan standing apon the calm ocean water.
Odysseus: That is debatable at best.
Aslan: Then, we may have that debate at a later time, if you desire. For now, we and goodness itself have common foe in this Black Hat Brigade.
Robin Hood: I have met with the Black Hat Brigade and I see no such enemy in them.
Aslan: I am surprised. You are poised as unambiguous good. What fellowship can light have with darkness?
Robin Hood: What fellowship can your goodness have with mine?
Aslan: Speak your mind.
Robin Hood: I am a thief, the Prince of Thieves actually. My story is of people doing the best they can in a world where the law and the king and the society itself does not allow them option. Your ideal world is well described in terms of that fantasy game, Dungeons and Dragons.
Aslan: I have use of fantasy, but not that game.
Robin Hood: You should give it a try. At least you should do some reading on the subject. The phrase that comes up that applies to the Narnian ideal is "Lawful Stupid". In your world, there is the king, there is obedience to the king, who obeys the religious power of, well, yourself. But, should any element of that be unjust in any way-
Aslan: The only injustices in my canon come from the evil foes.
Robin Hood: Or from a king that claims lands for Narnia without thought or from a people who commit nigh-genocide on the natives of Narnia then, once that's done, instantly claim the name of Narnia for themselves-
Aslan: Those are not evils but kings living up to Arthurian idea.
Robin Hood: That ideal is a problem in itself. Sure, it's all well and good to say that a good king will bring vitality to the land. But, that good king must live up to high lifestyle not just for personal greed but to keep up appearances for others. It becomes a nasty cycle of lifestyle one-upsmanship that results in taxation going down a line to those who can least defend themselves.
Aslan gives Robin Hood a momentary look, then turns to Odysseus: It seems that the thief fears living under a good law. But, you understand the value of a law.
Odysseus: Indeed I do. My story is that of a man who travels far and long in order to get home to the wife, family, and home that is his to protect by law.
Aslan: And, you do not want this Black Hat Brigade rewriting your tale so that the good paterfamilias is denied his good and righteous due.
Susan Pevensie: Of course, your good and righteous due is not simply your position in your family, but a narrative of moral complexity.
Odysseus, Robin Hood, and Aslan all look to the source of a shadow.
Polyphemus gives a polite wave: Hello.
Odysseus: What are you doing here?
Susan: I brought him here to remind you of an essential element of your narrative, your reflection.
Polyphemus: I'm the first adventure in your epic tale, a story in which you invade the home where I am the rightful master and I treat you, in all honesty, better than a group of invaders are due in ancient Greek culture.
Odysseus: No, you're a monster.
Polyphemus: I'm a home-owner.
Odysseus: You ate at least one of my men, you're a cannibal.
Polyphemus: You ate at least one of your men when they were transformed into pigs. And, you killed a bunch of men when they were, by the laws and customs of your culture, lawful guests in your home.
Odysseus: I am the hero. I was protecting what is mine.
Polyphemus: You mean like my herds of sheep that you killed so you could eat and then wear their skins? I was protecting what was mine.
Odysseus: Come on! I am the hero of my story.
Polyphemus: In an Ancient Greek epic where the point of a hero is to have a fatal moral flaw, usually related to hubris or pride.
Susan: This actually does go back to authorial intent, where Ancient Greek heroes are intended to be examples both of good and bad, so that one can enjoy the narrative, take value from the virtues, and take warning from the sins. The Black Hat Brigade doesn't want to deny you anything, but Aslan's little group seeks to deny you the moral complexity of your story.
Susan: By the way, does your group have some suitably alliterative or rhyming name, yet?
Aslan: I see no need.
Susan: I find it quite helpful. If nothing else, it gives me something to put on the t-shirts.
Aslan: Of course you would wear t-shirts.
Susan: You mean, of course I would wear tight, form-fitting t-shirts, because, in your mind, sex is a horrible, evil thing that a woman must only share with the man she loves... or is told to love by her father considering your devotion to Arthurian ideal and your appeal to a classic Greek paterfamilias.
Odysseus: What's wrong with the paterfamilias?
Susan: Your story illustrates that quite nicely. What, with the fate of your wife, children, and household servants all dependent upon you to refrain from killing a bunch of men just because you can.
Odysseus: Everything worked out.
Susan: Most families can't count upon a literal deus ex machina to appear to fix problems. Sometimes, people need the freedom to be themselves first and wife, offspring, or servant second.
Robin Hood: It is an unjust law that requires all those in power be perfectly just before justice is possible and allows those with less power no option to address the more realistic possibility.
Aslan: I am grieved, Robin Hood, that you do not see the corruption of pure morality in this.
Susan: And, I am grieved that you see complexity as corruption.
Odysseus: If complexity makes me a monster to my own family for the mere assertion of my rights as paterfamilias, it is corruption and I will fight it.
Susan looks to Aslan: It seems that we're seeing the nature of the company you keep.
Aslan glances to Polyphemus: And the nature of the company you keep.
Susan: One wonders if you will ever discover the true difference.
