[personal profile] wingedbeast
The Exorcist and Red Dawn have something in common.

In The Exorcist, a demon possesses the young daughter of an actress who lives a largely secular life. As a result, a young priest regains his faith just before dying while the actress and her daughter become faithful Catholics.

In Red Dawn, the original, an alliance of Russia and Cuba invade America in a massive coordinated strike that, in the first strike, attacks a High School. By the end, the nationalistic, anti-intellectual jock is proven right and anti-war sentiment is proven false at best.

To contrast, let's look at the Gmork in The Neverending Story. The Gmork has a specific motivation. He wants people to be easy to control, without their dreams. He fails in his task. But, his failure wasn't inevitable from his efforts.

Similarly, Agent Smith in The Matrix wants out of the Matrix. That's something he can only achieve by removing the subversive elements within. His desire to finish his task so he can leave drives him to desperation. Again, his failure isn't made inevitable by the fact of his effort.

Sure, the Gmork and Agent Smith are, for lack of a better word, evil. They do things we don't like and it makes us more ready to take sides against them. But, there's a reasonable motivation for what they do and you don't have to assume an inability to reasonably connect action and consequence.

The Exorcist is an explicitly Catholic film. That means that the way to Heaven is by both acts and grace, grace often taken to mean belief in the right religion. Is there any way such an obvious case of possession, with such obvious manifestations, doesn't result in people believing, harder, in Christianity? The demon doing the possessing might as well have called the press and cameras to say "I just want you to know that there is an afterlife, there is a Hell, I'm evil, and I want you to go to Hell." The consequences would have been the same... and entirely predictable.

Red Dawn would seem to have a similar ideology. The great good is to be American, support America, oppose America's enemies, don't think too hard about it. Why, in the world, would the Russians open fire on a High School first thing? What possible value could that have except the obviously predictable value of radicalizing opposition?

The only reasonable justification for either antagonist to act as they do is out of a secret alliance with those they allegedly oppose. It's a long con. They're secret conspirators.

This can be amusing for the fan-theory options. But, it's important to note where this comes from. The writing has failed to address the antagonists as though real enough to, you know, antagnoize.

Sure, we're talking about fiction, here. But, even so, we're talking about a level of fiction that can't be real even within the fiction. It just doesn't make any sense for them to be. They have to be playing their part in a con, otherwise it makes no sense.

Yes, I realize that means that, in Red Dawn, America is the bad guy. And, yes, I realize that, in The Exorcist, God is the bad guy. And, yes, I realize that's as far from authorial intent as one can imagine. But, here it is. It's inevitable.

This is a concept to keep in mind as you enjoy and create your own fictions. Your bad guys can't just be evil, they need to have their own beliefs and motivations beyond the evil lolz. Otherwise, the only alternative is that your protagonists are either secret bad guys or fooled.

Oh, and this isn't entirely about fiction. The Satanic Panic was a thing and it could easily have been stopped in its tracks if people ere ready to take a moment, take a breath, and ask simple questions about motivation.

Date: 2017-10-21 12:07 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
While I haven’t seen Red Dawn, I would say that any film that presents the antagonists as evil without beliefs and motivations is a horror film pretending to be otherwise. Even the machines in the original Terminator had something resembling a motivation.

The Exorcist was obviously intended to be horror, but the illogic of the Satan character in The Exorcist is arguably rooted in the illogic of the originating theology. If the Christian god is more powerful than Satan, there’s no good reason to just erase the devil from existence. And if the two are equally powerful, then the god cannot be omnipotent as claimed.

Here is Pauline Kael writing about The Exorcist:
https://poetry-arts-confidential.blogspot.com/2011/11/pauline-kael-on-exorcist.html

Date: 2017-10-21 12:16 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Sorry, I mean that it makes no sense for a god more powerful than a devil to put up with the latter’s existence.

Date: 2017-10-21 02:21 am (UTC)
dragoness_e: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dragoness_e
I have seen the original Red Dawn, but it's been a while. I think you may have misremembered it--the Cuban (not Soviet) paratrooper unit captured the small town the high school happened to be in. The high school wasn't their primary target. We are seeing the very narrow view the local high school kids had of a much, much larger event: the war and invasion of the U.S. We're never told why the war broke out, or why the US was invaded--it doesn't seem to have been something the high school students were paying much attention to (I may misremember here). As I've said before, Red Dawn is a story about guerillas or partisans.

The Exorcist was a book before it was a movie, and I have read the book. (Had no real interest in the movie, though I think I eventually saw it.) There's more going on than your summary might suggest. The demon is a specific, named boss demon of ancient Babylon-- Pazuzu. IIRC, he was also Sealed Evil in a Can, and the older priest had faced him before. Pazuzu had a personal hate-on for the older priest, and when they faced off again over the exorcism of the little girl, tried his demonic best to break the older priest's faith by showing him that his faith was useless, couldn't save a little girl. Pazuzu's goal was revenge, pure and simple. Apparently he was a vindictive bitch throughout the Exorcist sequels, too. I don't think Zuzu gave a crap about the larger picture, he just hated anyone who thwarted him, like the world's worst narcissist with an entitlement complex.
Edited Date: 2017-10-21 02:22 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-10-22 04:21 am (UTC)
dragoness_e: Living Dead Girl (Living Dead Girl)
From: [personal profile] dragoness_e
Not looking at the big picture is not the same as secretly being on the other guy's side. I am unimpressed with Zuzu as a big bad because all he is is a vindictive asshole of a demon. Sure, he's got supernatural powers and can force damned souls to possess people and do his dirty work, but his agenda is "I hate this guy who thwarted me, and that guy who thwarted me, and the little girl I used and discarded, so Imma gonna fuck 'em all up, because even for a demon, I have no life and probably troll 4chan for lulz." That still makes for a terrifying enemy when you're a mere human being hunted by a supernatural evil stalker like that.

In general, there are a couple of different views of Satan and his demons:

1) He's actually God's prosecuting attorney, a zealous one who thinks we humans are guilty perps trying to get off on mere technicalities, and who unleashes the nasty stuff only when God gives him permission to do so. I believe that's the legitimate Old Testament view of Satan. This version has no reason to hide the existence of God, so to speak. Horror novels don't usually go for this theory of Satan, because "God allowed Satan to play Job with you" is usually too subtle a horror for your standard airport horror novel. I've seen it in SF, though. And it really is the case of "Satan is (not very) secretly on God's side"

2) Satan is an entitled asshole who resents those icky minorities (humans) being treated as equals, or God please forbid, being promoted over him. (Islamic theory of Satan, btw). So he hates humans and rebels against God and generally tries to screw things up, especially for humans.

Some horror novels use a theory of Satan like this. This Satan and his crew are the ones that would rather convince humans he doesn't exist. Separating us from God via non-belief is just one tactic. Breaking our faith and trust in God by being horrible enough that people think Satan is as powerful or more powerful than God is another tactic, however this tactic should only be used when there are to be no surviving witnesses of the supernatural stuff, for the reasons you cited. I think the Devil in Devil's Advocate is like this; he keeps the supernatural stuff very under-the-table except around his intended anti-Christ candidate, or people too under his thumb/broken to go public.

3) Satan is essentially Morgoth and just likes to violently screw things up, because chaos and destruction is his thing. A lot of horror novel demons seem to act like this; they don't care who sees them at work, because killing people and breaking souls is all they do, not grand long-term strategies. E.g. the infovores in the Laundry-verse are just supernatural predators, and their long-term agenda is at best "learn to farm my food supply". (They aren't usually that smart, even.)

Edited Date: 2017-10-22 04:32 am (UTC)

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